SyMenu - General discussion & questions - Who (the hell) are the SyMenu users? - Messages https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 SyMenu - General discussion & questions - Who (the hell) are the SyMenu users? - Messages en-us http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Sat, 11 May 2024 22:54:35 GMT Sat, 11 May 2024 22:54:35 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23 ]]> Sat, 11 May 2024 22:54:35 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca
It's a good idea even if, depending on the way I decide to proceed, it could be easy to implement for me and easy to use for you or a suicide for me and a burden for you.

But before starting with the flow of ideas, let's speak about the reasons for your proposal.
What are the drawbacks of having more than one SyMenu?
I think all the power users, including me, have more than one version spreaded on a single PC or on multiple PCs. I personally find this management very easy to control because SyMenu takes care of all the update burdens (its own update and the programs update).
So what's the problem with this kind of "duplications"?
And please don't mention the future and only hypothetical limitation to the SyMenu installation number for every single user because, as I said, the limit will be very large and it'll be implemented only to prevent abuse not to create problems for the honest users.]]> Thu, 02 May 2024 07:58:22 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23 For example, for the two versions on E:/ each would have their own profile. I could copy one to D:/ and have both backed up on F:/ allowing me to then also use a separate version on my laptop.
That then gives SyMenu more functionality whilst keeping it tied to a single account and allowing more versatility.

Over the years, I have tried several different configurations that suit me and this current setup is the best yet. I really do not want to have all my apps in one SyMenu as It becomes distracting. But, of course, many are very useful in certain circumstances.

Anyway, just an idea I thought may help smile]]> Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:57:13 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca sl23 wrote:
How would that work exactly?

I've not a clear idea about this. For sure the limit will be set to avoid abuses, not to upset the SyMenu use for users like you.
But even if the rules are too limiting for your operation, you can set more than one login and use as many versions as you want.
I don't want to limit the use but the abuse of those people that redistribute SyMenu not following the license conditions because it's not possible to count the same user hundreds of times worldwide.]]> Fri, 26 Apr 2024 07:34:58 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23 But then I have a second version on E:/ for apps not used much, like CCleaner, Minitool Partition Wizard, etc.Which is also backed up.

So I have one on D:/
Two on E:/
Those two are also backed up On F:/
And just to be sure, These are also backed up further onto a USB Stick.
Seven versions of SyMenu in all, although some are just copies of others as they are merely backups and not new instances.
But would that count as more than five?

Gets a bit complex looking at it that way. Hopefully the version on D:/ backed up onto E, F and G:/ counts as one installation as it is an exact copy? Same with the other version on E:/ backed up to F and G:/ meaning I actually only have two instances.

How would that work exactly?]]> Thu, 25 Apr 2024 23:01:37 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca donutz wrote:
Can I also install it on my laptop with the same user name?

Sure you can. As long as you are using SyMenu personally.

Probably in the future I will limit the number of versions one single person (login) can use but I think I will place the limit in the field of the five to meet the requirements of all the users, even the hard core ones.]]> Mon, 22 Apr 2024 07:24:12 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from donutz They are both are on the same network at home.

Thanks for the update to syMenu, the layout is much improved.]]> Sat, 20 Apr 2024 17:54:35 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23 Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:58:37 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca As I already said I'm used to dealing with a lot of strange humans. I'm not surprised to find the same kind here.
Anyway I would like to borrow his sentence "never meet your heroes" and change it to "never meet your users". But I love SyMenu users too much to say that smile smile]]> Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:29:46 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23
Take no notice. Someone you never heard of, who has paid no attention to the project suddenly comes out of the woodwork to abuse you without understanding the full story. Who's the ass hat?]]> Thu, 14 Mar 2024 10:07:13 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca hausenfefr wrote:
Please stop being an Asshat.

Dear hausenfefr,
You are free to think whatever you like but not to insult anyone.

My real attitude is the one you learnt to know in (almost) 20 years of SyMenu.
If you really think my attempt is an "extortion" my only other option is to abandon the project. Because no one can force me to continue, not you, not anyone.
But since I'm not a bad person, in this case I will probably do what @JackoBongo suggested, i.e. putting SyMenu on the magical GitHub. The army of sleeping devs will wake up and emerge to continue the SyMenu development, probably better than I did in this year, update the SPS twice a day, and you'll be all happier than before.

So these are my two options.

Your options instead are much more.
If you don't agree you can abandon the program. You haven't paid for this, don't have an obligation, you can delete it and move on.
You could have supported the project when I was in need with your time, with your help. Because dear hausenfefr you tell me you are supporting SyMenu but it's the first time I hear from you, so you are a taker and not a giver.You can stop suggesting SyMenu to your friends.


What you can't do is to insult me.]]> Thu, 14 Mar 2024 08:28:23 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from hausenfefr
Gianluca; How are you profiting from this decision? do you want me to PayPal you $5?

Regardless of your personal viewpoint the user experience is still "Extortion".

I've used SyMenu for years! Excellent handy software! Always been a joy to use! never knew the creator had this attitude tho, This is why they say "never meet your heroes".


So you win I guess.
You wanted me to create an account on your blogs forums and here I am!
For the exclusive purpose of calling you an Asshat... But her I am!

Please stop being an Asshat.

- hausenfefr]]> Thu, 14 Mar 2024 07:34:38 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from JackoBongo Gianluca wrote:

Indeed what I think is that in a month you won't be able to involve anybody, your SPS will be outdated, and you'll be discouraged and disappointed. And a bit disenchanted about GitHub powers.

The open source movement is terrific and works perfectly for mainstream projects. We have hundreds of working examples.

This is why I was asking why you're still working on Symenu. What are you expecting from it? Do you want to be able to earn a salary to devote 100% of your time? Or maybe you're sick of it.

Gianluca wrote:

But the great majority of the projects, even those published on the magical GitHub, are currently dead or maintained intermittently by the original author.

Ok, but I don't see your point. If a project dies or is updated twice a year, is it a big deal?
With the sources online, someone just could make a fork (or not).

Gianluca wrote:

SyMenu is not mainstream, the community that is helping is really strong and resolute but it is small.

I can't understand how GitHub can change that but I'm really impatient to be denied.

Ok, even if putting the sources online doesn't help, what could be the negative impacts?


As you wrote, SyMenu is a niche project. And putting up hurdles to potential volunteers doesn't help much.
And again Gianluca, I mean no offense at all. I'm just trying to bring some goodwill and, maybe, remove a bit of your cynicism out of your mind (but it doesn't seem to work so far).


BTW, I've checked the SPS format on a couple of apps and it is quite clear. I assume you have a couple of tools to make the new release check process automated.]]> Tue, 12 Mar 2024 10:32:00 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23 Gianluca wrote:

I'm always surprised when people attribute magical powers to the open source world.

Do you have kids Gian?! I bet you're great at bedtime stories! Try to make them a little more positive at the end though, cos that one sucked! Hammer Time]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 21:08:45 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca Syngensmyth wrote:
OK, I did it. No big deal. I just survived two 737 flights so I can live through this too.

737 Max?!?!?

Kneel!]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 18:23:55 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca JackoBongo wrote:
[...] you'd simply publish your work on Github where you could keep control of the sources while getting help from the community ... and maybe get an army at some point.


I'm always surprised when people attribute magical powers to the open source world.

If I understand your idea, if I put the SPS on GitHub I'll attract dozens of people that are ready to help me in any way.
Outside of GitHub instead, for example directly in the SyMenu's house, that is here, the hidden army can't reveal itself probably because they can act only on the official Open source temples. Otherwise the Gods curse them.


Forgive my irony but now I'll try to be more constructive with a proposal for you or whoever wants to accept the challenge.

Take 50 SPS. Not more because I don't want you to waste your time but if you are a time wasting guy, take them all.

You already know where to find them... if not, they are inside a zip file located in the [SyMenu]\ProgramFiles\SPSSuite\SyMenuSuite\_Cache\ folder.
Put them in a new project in GitHub.

Now invoke the sleeping army of contributors. Since GitHus is such a magical place they will come in droves.
For a while you and the army try to maintain the SPS updated. To ease your work I suggest you use the SPS Builder because one of its possible uses is to work with local files.
In a month from now we can check if your solution has worked for real, if a community has arisen in that magical place and if they are efficient and precise, enthusiastic and faithful.

If you (or any other person) succeeded, I grant you that I change the pointing of SyMenu to the GitHub repository to give away the entire SPS system to the community. Because without SyMenu, SPS is currently not so useful.


Indeed what I think is that in a month you won't be able to involve anybody, your SPS will be outdated, and you'll be discouraged and disappointed. And a bit disenchanted about GitHub powers.


The open source movement is terrific and works perfectly for mainstream projects. We have hundreds of working examples.

But the great majority of the projects, even those published on the magical GitHub, are currently dead or maintained intermittently by the original author.

SyMenu is not mainstream, the community that is helping is really strong and resolute but it is small.

I can't understand how GitHub can change that but I'm really impatient to be denied.]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 18:21:13 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23 Syngensmyth wrote:
Good Grief what the heck is doing now? smile
OK, I did it. No big deal. I just survived two 737 flights so I can live through this too.



Well done! wink]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 18:17:54 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Syngensmyth
OK, I did it. No big deal. I just survived two 737 flights so I can live through this too.]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 16:30:47 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from JackoBongo And, in the end, why do you keep working on Symenu if it's more than a hobby?

I do understand that maintaining the application list repo is a huge workload and I would understand you want Symenu to transform into a Freemium app (with the app-store behind a paywall). I'm not really sure I'd pay for that (I sure use this feature but it's not critical to me) and I'd rather give a couple of hours a week to update the app list (to test if the latest versions are installed and correctly run) to keep your project alive.

And once again, I'm not criticizing you in any way Gianluca, you've done a superb work. But, if you want to keep this work free, I would have thought you'd simply publish your work on Github where you could keep control of the sources while getting help from the community ... and maybe get an army at some point. It works for Homebrew (which has 6 times more applications).]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 14:50:02 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca FLOSS wrote:
If I have to register to update your soft, I cannot anonymously redistribute my prepackacked bundle of portable apps and symenu to my friends and share it via cloud or my own server.

And finally we got it!
Read MY license available here https://www.ugmfree.it/manual#Licence
And above all read 2.b:

"You may not distribute registered copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT to third parties without written permission. Official versions available for download from UGMFree’s websites may be freely distributed."

What does that mean?
It's possible to redistribute the SyMenu installer package (zip) but not a registered copy (a configured copy to be clear) without my permission. And you haven't requested my permission.
This kind of distribution is causing me a lot of problems and it's one of the main reasons you get the login today.
BTW... I'm thinking about suing you for license infringement wink

FLOSS wrote:
I was lucky to have a pc which I didn't update and updates are still functioning.

SyMenu will function forever, even outdated versions will do.
The update of the suite programs instead will work only until I decide the time has come.
After that moment the system won't download anything more if you are running a SyMenu outdated version.

FLOSS wrote:
Reading your lines I am impressed that your are familiar with salting accounts, but sorry I don't trust you

As I told you before, I'm dealing with any kind of animals so you won't be banned unless you publish shoes advertisement.
But you are free to go when you want.
Trust is the foundation of this community, if I don't deserve your trust probably this community is not suitable for you.]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 14:17:32 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca JackoBongo wrote:
But why don't you make it open-sourced?

It's really simple.
SPS is an open standard. Do you want the schema? I can tell you where to download it. Or you can use a software that reverse the xml itself and get it by yourself. A schema can't be protected, it's open by definition otherwise the data loaded in it can't be shared.

If you want to create and post a new SPS for a software we still don't have in the suite you are free to do that.
If you want to push it in the SyMenu system to share it, you can do that without telling me anything. I will only review your job to be sure you haven't done anything wrong or bad for the community.
I created a software for the volunteers that are helping me. It's a tool (SPS Builder) available in the SyMenu suite that guides you to create and push your SPS in a really simple way. But if you don't like it you can use a different software, or use Notepad.

So, my friend, everything is already available for everyone.

The problem nobody seems to understand is that we have 1.700 programs here.
And a lot of them change every day.
The proud suite editors helping me are less than 10 but I'm maintaining by myself at least half of the entire program collection.

I need an army here.
Because the target is to add every single freeware software on the Internet, not a number as small as 1.700.
If I don't have an army I need money to dedicate myself more and more to the project.]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 14:00:49 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from JackoBongo ).]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 12:56:16 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from FLOSS Thanks for your detailed answer. - really,!

But I think you still got me wrong.

Me myself, don't care about your twist with PortableApps, I just find them to be a more "intelligent" way to "virtualize" soft. And I got in hefty discussions with John really hard too.

You don't get the point.
If I have to register to update your soft, I cannot anonymously redistribute my prepackacked bundle of portable apps and symenu to my friends and share it via cloud or my own server.
It is just this fucking registration process that I complain about, - oh man please get rid of it.
I was lucky to have a pc which I didn't update and updates are still functioning.
You don't even provide old versions, or am I only too dumb to find them? Please give me a link.

As of this now, there is no technical need for a registration.
I still wonder why you went this step.
Reading your lines I am impressed that your are familiar with salting accounts, but sorry I don't trust you and I don't see the need for a registration.
Obviously you cant handle it any more. Why not make it opensource. Would have the benefits to fix some bugs that you didnt. and btw: I said github - not sourceforge...

have a nice day

edited by FLOSS on 11/03/2024]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 12:45:55 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23
Still, I agree with you. Objections need to be stated, if there are any.

Just like to add, FLOSS, I myself suggested to Gian about paying for the service he offers. The guy has put 20 years into this project! That's is quite stunning really! Not sure how old the sps system is, but I've been using symenu around 5-8 years I think, all those updated sps files created by one man, every week, for 20 years! You're not paying for the software that symenu provides, you'll be paying for the update service for symenu to auto update them for you. Symenu will be free to use, but I believe the plan is to have a paid for service that updates all those apps for a small fee. I personally don't think that's a bad deal. Don't you think?

And BTW, don't worry FLOSS, everyone's a moron at some point! wink

edited by sl23 on 11/03/2024]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 11:55:49 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca sl23 wrote:
Every single app is downloaded from the official site.

Well to be crystal clear some apps, neither old nor abandoned, are actually redistributed because their own web sites prevent the direct download.
In this case, if the redistribution is not explicitly allowed by the license, I'll remove them with no problems at all. I only need that someone ask for that, because it's not possible to read thousands of licenses... apart from the section where a program self-styles as a freeware software that is what interests me more.
I don't expect to receive "cease and desist" injunctions because a kind and friendly message is enough for me.

Usually the download prevention from a web site is not there for license reasons, above all if we speak about freeware software, but to be sure the users know the authorship of a program or to prevent abuses. BTW SyMenu gives all the merit to the authors in the program's details tab and during the download.

Anyway if someone has something to object, I'm always here to help.]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 11:38:18 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23
So disregarding those apps, how is this redistributing anything? Symenu does nothing more than share the original download link.

Wrt John haller, I myself have witnessed personally what an arrogant twat he is and quite agree with Gian about John's behaviour, mindset and jealous approach to PA system.

I wish Gian and John could work together because those two systems merged would be amazing! But if I pick a side, it's Gian's.]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 11:16:54 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca
You surely used the wrong tone but it's not a problem for me, I'm used to dealing with all sorts of morons.
But your last messages instilled in me the doubt you could be a good person and you can probably be a great addition for this community instead of being a pain in the ass.
So I agree with you, "it could be a misunderstanding".

As a rule of thumb, I suggest the users to not put too many topics in a single post because it's impossible to answer everything in a structured (I like structured things) and useful (for the readers) way.
I will reply only to some of your questions/topics and I would like you to open new threads if you want to go further with any of these arguments.


Community policies.
You are still in this community because I never kicked out anybody. Literally. Not even the morons.
Well... except some Chinese friends that in the past used this forum to publish advertising for shoes, t-shirts or whatever.
Instead a lot of people voluntarily went away because they felt this community doesn't suit them, but this was their choice.
So don't worry. I can delete inappropriate contents but you won't be banned.


Security.
Well you are partially right here. The user's email is, for now, stored in clear in the user database. It's a thing I've always wanted to fix and I'll surely do it when I have some free time.
The passwords instead are quite safe because they are hashed before storing them in the DB.
The communication from your browser for the web site and from SyMenu are encrypted with SSL.
Anyway my intention is to change this reasonably safe setup improving its security with a TOTP. SyMenu requests a single login, so the burden to produce and supply the system with a TOTP key is occasional on the user side. But the security will improve.
The SyMenu credentials on your local PC are stored inside the SyMenuConfig.zip file. So unzip it and open the simple xml file you'll find inside. Open the xml and search for the identity key. You'll find some attributes in this key like a guid, your username (in clear) and your encrypted credentials. Try to decrypt them as you like (maybe with a brute force attempt?) but you won't succeed because the crypting method is AES-256.
Why a symmetric encryption instead of a safer asymmetric algorithm like RSA? Simply because I can't give the burden of managing a private key to users that don't understand anything about that.
Well I've almost forgotten. The encryption is salted if you are asking yourself that. So have a good time trying to crack this.
Probably you underestimate who I am when you tell me that "you don't know how much I am into security, but you doubt I am not very much." but you are perfectly right when you say that "Firms with millions of capital failed with this.".
Maybe is it one of the reasons for which I'm trying to get some money from this project?
To make it flourish and improve it?
To give the best service I can to you?
I'm not a greedy person as you suggested, I'm only trying to do the best here because I'm the person who cares more about this project.


The legal stuff.
You again are partially right here.
It's true that some programs should require an explicit authorization to be redistributed. And I'm very happy if someone can help with this, studying the licenses and asking for permission from the authors that require for an explicit authorization.
In the same way I will be very happy if the authorization won't come because this way I know for sure I have to remove the program as I did in the past.
I want this project to remain legit but again I'm quite alone to attend all these tasks, the community is not so collaborative and the people that already help are literally overwhelmed.
If you want to help with the legal thighs, please be my guest.


PA.
A paragraph apart is dedicated to my old friend J. T. Haller.
His license doesn't mention that redistributing his software is forbidden. Well he can't do that unless he wants his community to wake up and turn around him.
What he was complaining about, last time I read his rants, was that SyMenu is stealing the bandwidth of the PA website smile. Dear John, you are on the Internet a download is meant to be downloaded... Plus the majority of his software is hosted on SourceForge. So what's the real point for this?
The other complaint was that I'm unpacking his software without using the PAF unpacker. He even creates a terrifying message when the unpacking is made "the wrong way".
So you can ask why I'm not using the right PAF unpacker.
Well the problem here is that the silent unpacker is reserved to the PA Launcher and if you are not the PA Launcher it doesn't work. You can use the "explicit unpacker", that is what you get when double clicking a PAF from Windows, but it's not the way a user wants to be assisted in SyMenu. The entire "installation" phase must be unattended, exactly the same way the PA Launcher works.
Where I live these kinds of "measures" are called software protection.
That means that John considers the PAF software as his own property and not a nice share with the world.
Then the right question become:
How aware are his contributors of this protection?
The PAF packages are not John work, at least not entirely because he has a great community with him that does the majority of the job. A lot of his people think their own job is done for sharing, that it's open, that the intention is to spread free software. How conscious are they about the real policy of their boss?
Do you know that a past version of the PAF packager has an explicit protection against SyMenu and Lupo Pen suite?
Since I imagine you are (or was) a member of the PA community you should know that in the past I asked John to collaborate because SyMenu could be a game changer for the entire portable movement. Or was the community kept in the dark? He simply ignored me and from then on tried to sabotage my project, mentioning it together with other projects that are sadly known to pack portable cracked programs.

So am I really the terrible criminal I'm depicted to be?

edited by Gianluca on 10/10/2024]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 09:47:56 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from FLOSS If you can't handle it, Try to survive.
If your software project is to overcome you, you won't get away from it.
Otherwise it will kill you.
Sell it commercial - if anybody will give money for it.
Or make it opensource and your thoughts might overcome and reprodruce.
Huh...]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 05:41:09 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from FLOSS
edited by FLOSS on 11/03/2024

edited by FLOSS on 11/03/2024]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 04:44:48 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from FLOSS There are quite some softs in this portfolio that you were not to have legal rights to publish in your platform. You just ignore them because of software developers just won't to mess around with legal stuff.
So you are using others peoples work for your own fortune.

May I introduce you to some examples:
Firefox portable - John Haller still is upset with you about integrating his workgroup craftmanship into your soft.

Thunderbird portable - John Haller still is upset with you about integrating his workgroup craftmanship into your soft.
SIV System Information Portable - never gave you an agreement.

drivegleam - never gave you an agreement.

on and on...


You may argue, that these are all opensource and free.

At the moment you are demanding money, it is no more.
I am really upset of you to get money about of this.
Needing an E-Mail account for this now - it's bad. - Just like Google - Don't be evil.
We are.

HTH

edited by FLOSS on 11/03/2024

edited by FLOSS on 11/03/2024

edited by FLOSS on 11/03/2024]]> Mon, 11 Mar 2024 03:01:34 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from FLOSS I might sound offensive but this is not my intention - aux contraire...


I believe, you didn't get me right. I really liked your software because it made it easier to handle updates and to keep the soft in one place (directory except NirSoft)
and I apreciate your work really.

But and this a big but!
I am now in the scene of portable software quite a time - mention the "portable".

I've made some soft portable which was not intented to. So I got along your system of SyMenu to cover "portables" the way your system is dealing with this "problem" is the problem now.

The fortune of portable soft is compatability, put it on any windows-pc and - SECURITY! Which I can't mention enough.

I don't know how much you are into security, but I doubt you are not very much.

You told that it is too much work.
How do you handle the extra work to secure your users private data about their E-Mail adresses and their passwords? I really doubt that you can handle this.
Firms with millions of capital failed with this.

-
Sorry ran out of time
but if you keep this account alive I perhaps may help you with the problem of keeping up the service.
THX and Greetz

edited by FLOSS on 10/03/2024]]> Sun, 10 Mar 2024 23:38:19 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from zolople

Gianluca: THANK YOU!!!]]> Sun, 10 Mar 2024 23:16:37 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23 Some people really are idiots, selfish, freeloaders!

Gian, don't take that to heart, many of us here are indebted to you for your work! I never realised it was so difficult for you. I completely understand should you decide to give up, though I will be saddened by the loss, at least it will last for many years. Even if updates aren't automatically achieved, we'll, for us they are automatic! You have given so much time and effort and if I could, I would donate so much more. Unfortunately, working in a factory doesn't pay well!

I always look forward to new versions and I am hoping symenu continues. But you need to look after your interests too. It was always going to ruin someone's life when you turn a free app into a paid one. But it needs to be done if it gives you incentive to carry on. 20 years is a massive amount of time to devote to something for free. I congratulate you, I appreciate you and your work and think you deserve something back for all you have given for free.

Thank you Gian and well done for creating something unique and very useful in many peoples lives. Something I bet floss hasn't achieved.]]> Sat, 09 Mar 2024 13:06:30 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca FLOSS wrote:
Oh my god!
Are you serious? Or just greedy?
Happy shitstorm!
If you can't handle it, make it opensource, put it on github or somewhere else.
You are captivating free software on MY COMPUTER!
Without even warning me before the update!
I hope you will be sued for that.


Wow, that was the worst thing you could ever do.

Dear FLOSS,
I'm very sorry to have ruined your day and YOUR COMPUTER with the simple login process.
And sorry to not have alerted you in advance that, probably, in the future, a portion of the software you are using for free could become a paid one or could be turned off.
You are right, I should have posted a note for you.

I hope to be in time and this is the note for you:

"Dear FLOSS, probably, in the future, the SyMenu part dedicated to the management of the other freeware programs, could become a paid one or could be shutted down. Sorry for you loss"

Now I'm waiting to be sued by you dear friend.
And I'm waiting for the shitstorm too.]]> Sat, 09 Mar 2024 07:43:29 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from FLOSS Are you serious? Or just greedy?
Happy shitstorm!
If you can't handle it, make it opensource, put it on github or somewhere else.
You are captivating free software on MY COMPUTER!
Without even warning me before the update!
I hope you will be sued for that.

Wow, that was the worst thing you could ever do.]]> Sat, 09 Mar 2024 02:44:13 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from grindler
edited by grindler on 08/03/2024]]> Fri, 08 Mar 2024 23:25:44 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from grindler
I understand you and totally agree with you. Even if they don't say it directly, the world is mostly made up of ungrateful freeloaders who stop their hand when it's free, but as soon as money becomes an issue, they get their ass kicked.
Users benefit from good, honest work for free for years, but if you then want some compensation for your valuable time, you are reduced to a dog who only cares about money. Suddenly you are a rip-off, even though a lot of life energy, free time and money have been invested. You are then portrayed as someone who would rather take care of his family than the poor users who feel betrayed.

The world is unfortunately ungrateful and full of idiots... They are doing a great job and thank you for all the years you have invested in your tools. But I think it's difficult to charge a monthly subscription fee for apps that are free. Isn't this a violation of the license terms of the original developers. Surely you have to contribute financially to them?

I'm not sure whether, after all these years of work, they are happy with continuing the project financed by donations. I would also rather donate an amount than pay every month for apps that are actually free.
You can give an ultimatum. As soon as you have received amount xx as a donation, you will continue the project. If not, then it will no longer be financially manageable for them. Since I use their apps a lot, I would definitely donate, if only for my own benefit, so that I continue to have up-to-date tools.

But if there are actually not enough donations coming in, then the common greedy people don't deserve their software suite. The positive side effect is that your children, wife or dogs will be happy that they have more time again and will no longer have to constantly be bothered by dissatisfied users.



cheers


edited by grindler on 08/03/2024]]> Fri, 08 Mar 2024 23:14:58 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca
The login it's here because I need to weigh the community.
If it's too small, there's no reason to continue with this project because it's draining me.
If it's big enough, the app service must become paid for the same exact reason as above.]]> Fri, 08 Mar 2024 21:34:38 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from MacDjango
A short note would have been useful to understand the reasons of the (newly) required login.

wink]]> Fri, 08 Mar 2024 20:57:39 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23 12 Euros is fair, and would give you a nice incentive to keep going! wink
I stay logged in anyway, I tried to create some more SPS but I find it a struggle to keep up with it, sorry!I don't know how you do it?!
I really hope you don't give up, but I get it. I for one would definitely miss it! It is one of a handful of programs that are used daily and not just for updates, but actually use it to open apps and folders. It has become a major part of my workflow!]]> Mon, 19 Feb 2024 22:27:33 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca sl23 wrote:
Subscription type charges tend to put people off. Go look at Akai unofficial MPC forum and search for subscription. One guy suggested it and every other user was against it!

If I'm not wrong, the suggestion in Akai forum was about subscription for bug fix and software further improvements. And I totally agree with the opponents.

SyMenu, as you correctly asserted, is and remains a free tool.
The management of the thousand programs instead requires more resources and should be the service you are asked to pay for.
It's not similar to the proposal for Akai but it's the same logic behind the streaming services: you access a continuously changing collection of movies, you pay to sustain the development.
Naturally the price should be much less than your supposed 20€ (per year), maybe 12€ per year? One Euro per month?

Anyway all this conversation is premature and useless with no affordable data on the SyMenu users.
For that reason I'm developing a login system to access the SPS Manager. This way I'll start to know how many users are really using the SPS thing and taking consequent decisions.
The login will be free for all and, if you already have it, you can use the same credentials you use for this forum.
The login won't be too annoying because you login the first time and then the system will remember you until you explicitly logout.
If you have more than a SyMenu installation you can use the same credentials for all of them. There's no limit to it. I want to count the users, not the installations. And I'm really curious to see how many users will pop up from the 3.000 different installations currently hidden behind a single ID.
As soon as I am ready to release you'll have other details.

There's another possible outcome from the login thing.
If I discover that the SPS users are too few, I'll close the entire project.
My boost in all these years has always been the conviction SyMenu was useful for a lot of people. As I asserted more than once, in my mind, SyMenu is a sort of time economizer. With this project I help people to spare time and to dedicate that time to more productive, funny, useful activities.
The claim could be: SyMenu helps you to stay with your family, more!
But to be really useful the community must be wide enough.

Let's see.]]> Mon, 19 Feb 2024 07:48:46 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23 scentse wrote:
...

What he said! Whaaaaa?]]> Fri, 16 Feb 2024 20:55:03 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from scentse Gianluca wrote:

...Try to read this posts and if you like let me know what do you think...


Let me preface my commentary by stating,
"I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice."
(It's actually illegal in the US to do so)


PA POSTS

It seems the guy over at PortableApps is upset about how a maintainer has forked their product.

In the US, federal law applies to all 50 states.
There is a federal law known as Section 230.
Basically, it states that a service is not liable for the posts of its users.
But if a valid take-down request is made, the service must take down the post.
If there are some programs (posts) by a maintainer (forum user) which are in violation, the onus would be on the developer to request a take-down.
If the entry is made again, the developer would have to request a separate take-down for that "post".
Think P2P sites.

Next issue to unpack here is the whether forking the PA product actually violates their licensing agreement.
I'm unfamiliar with the licensing provisions in OSS, but forks in OSS are common.

There's also some nonsense about "repackaging".
But if the package is forked, it's a different product altogether. That's not "repackaging".

It seems like the admin's gripe mainly surrounds the removal of their splash screen.
Unsure if doing this violates anything.

If it does, then it might make sense to leave their splash screen.
Particularly if it will fix the "corruption" dialog.


Even if you were to charge a fee for accessing the SyMenu database; you'd be charging for that service, rather than the programs themselves.


VISIBILITY POST
Yes, adding SyMenu into a Wikipedia page could potentially help somewhat, however not in a massive way.
How to successfully launch a PR blitz is truthfully beyond my expertise.
Generally, I've noticed that when the big tech firms want additional visibility for products, they rebrand.
Same for B&M stores with "Grand (re-)Openings".
But it always requires the coinciding exposure provided by media (articles & "influencers").

Hiring a PR firm costs money.

I won't even venture a guess, but it's expensive.
Furthermore, that guarantees nothing AFA traction is concerned.

The term SyMenu conveys is that it's some sort a menu utility.
When in reality, it is a much more robust offering than a simple menu (format, maintained repository, automatic updates, cloud sync between devices,etc.)
Finding SyMenu's identifiable caterings would help with branding efforts.

Furthermore, the website ugmfree has zero relation to the program name SyMenu.

The .it domain is also unfamiliar to many web users.
This may be a major point of confusion
Google Search will always prioritize the main (.com, .net) domains for web searches in English.
This may be de-prioritizing SyMenu in search results.


Truthfully, there's no simple answer that guarantees the desired outcome.
Companies go out of business paying for advertising that doesn't translate into sales.
...

edited by scentse on 14/02/2024]]> Wed, 14 Feb 2024 20:02:50 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23
That was in my mind when I got the refusal from dev's, why do they not want to help promote their software? Very strange!

I expect you've done something similar, but have you tried asking on forums such as PortableFreeware et al?

Well, the suggestion to make it Payware was in fact a way of covering your time and effort. It doesn't matter what we as users pay for as long as you are getting something back. As a user, if you charged for SyMenu itself, I would purchase the Current/Next major build but app updates are free. If you charge for the update service, it becomes almost a subscription, one way or another, and that works in the fairest way I think. Because then Users get SyMenu free, can do what they want with the SPS system to install own apps etc, then can pay you for updating, if they choose to. The only downside? Subscription type charges tend to put people off. Go look at Akai unofficial MPC forum and search for subscription. One guy suggested it and every other user was against it!]]> Mon, 12 Feb 2024 23:27:41 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca Thanks guys.
@sl23 as you correctly say, I automated a lot of the checking process for SPS so it's not a big burden to check everything.
The real burden would be to discern among what needs to be checked daily and what probably needs to be checked less often, i.e. to manage the SPS in two different ways.
The only different process I apply today is for abandonware that is no longer checked at all.
But the real problem here is not the apps that me and the other editors have to check. It's the apps we can't include in the suite for lacking resources.
As I already said, SPS is a very powerful technology and we can reach 5.000 with no problem. And beyond this number it's SyMenu that would have difficulty managing the items, not the SPS itself.
The problem is to spread the SPS wings for real.

@sl23 wrote:
I really do find it strange that so many Developers of software aren't interested in adding a simple update to an SPS


The strangest thing is that they don't understand that adding their own apps to SyMenu is not a help for SyMenu but it's for themselves.
The apps included on the SyMenu suite have a larger audience and an automatic update system that the majority of freeware software don't have.
scentse wrote:
I hadn't realized .sps was open. Sort of nullifies my thoughts that you were wanting to perhaps license or sell the format.

I want to be able to feed SPS as it deserves, to expand the project, to grow.
Today I'm stuck because of a lack of resources, mainly time and people, to devote to the project. And if I need to convert SyMenu into a payware app as @sl23 suggested, to move on, I'll do it.
SPS is open and stays open. If someone wants to use it for a different project he can do it.
If anything will ever be sold here it'll be the service I'm dispensing with my time, with the SyMenu ecosystem, with the project reliability and continuity.

@scentse thank you for your thoughts regarding the lack of traction SyMenu has. You are perfectly right.
Differently from chocolatey or PortableApps, SyMenu has never been well perceived outside its own community and the reason for this it's a mystery I've never solved.
Try to read this posts and if you like let me know what do you think
https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=818
https://portableapps.com/comment/252017#comment-252017
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105572]]> Mon, 12 Feb 2024 09:58:55 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from scentse Gianluca wrote:


2002!...

...What I think is the problem is not my approach to openness, it's about the requirements I ask to the collaborators that are probably too pretentious...

...And I ask all of this for free, because the project is entirely freeware. And probably this is its worst weakness or, at least, the real reason I can't expand it as I would because of the lack of resources...

...The problem on the editing side it's not about the place where the SPS are published but the persons that collaborate to publish them.

The editors are strongly committed, really expert on it, but very few. And GitHub is not a collaborators multiplicator.


Wow, incredible commitment.

You clearly understand it's a complex issue.
I hadn't realized .sps was open.
Sort of nullifies my thoughts that you were wanting to perhaps license or sell the format.


Surely everyone recalls Steve Balmer's DEVELOPERS^3 moment.
MAINTAINERS^3 applies just as well here.

Point being, even a company like Microsoft - with massive financials - still requires 3rd parties to invest in their platform.

Sort of insane that this project has been around since 2002, and yet chocolately had achieved more momentum in the space despite lacking a GUI.
There was a massive media blitz surrounding chocolatey when it released, the niche being its similarity to linux package management. Same goes for winget.

But I think most Windows user prefer to stay in the GUI, so its sort of lost on the majority.

While cloud synchronization between devices was a non-factor in 2002, much is different now.
As previously mentioned, I think the big niche for SyMenu is its ability to sync across devices, regardless of cloud provider.

I would try to lean into that branding & association as much as possible.


As you're well aware, developers of their own software actually build, and maintain their releases for the chocolatey platform.
I'm unaware how to go about incentivizing devs to actually build and maintain their releases on SyMenu, short of straight up paying them.

Same goes for press coverage.

But like chocolatey, once a big projects signs on, or articles are mass disseminated, more projects seem to follow suit.]]> Sun, 11 Feb 2024 02:42:41 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from sl23

As far as updates are concerned, I don't really think you need to update these apps as often as you do. I suggest going through the list and weeding out old useless apps that are rarely downloaded (are you able to check/monitor how downloads?), but also, categorise apps by importance. For example... Internet based apps are a security risk, so should be updated more regularly than say media players or notepads. Thing is, if there's an issue, the SPS gives a link to notify you of any problems or needs for an update if available. I know you have automated a large amount of this process for checking for app updates, but can it be automated further? Not for users, but for SPS Publishers.

I really do find it strange that so many Developers of software aren't interested in adding a simple update to an SPS file to help out this great project! I contacted around fifty or so, and only two or three wanted to help. That's really sad!]]> Sat, 10 Feb 2024 16:12:37 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Mao_Tolba Second, I'm a normal user with no coding knowledge who was looking for ways to overcome the issue of not being organized.
Appreciate all your hard work and brilliance.]]> Fri, 09 Feb 2024 19:48:00 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca scentse wrote:
I imagine work on this project began long before I discovered it.

2002!

scentse wrote:
Giver the time/effort poured into developing SPS & SyMenu, there clearly exists a strong sense of ownership protection surrounding it.

Once a user call me the "benevolent dictator"... well there's only one person in this world that deserves this title and it's not me, but the sense of protection you mention it's clearly what drives my actions and decisions.

scentse wrote:
Sometime back, I asked about open-sourcing the project, but it was shot down.

SyMenu code is already on GitHub in a private repository. In the past three people asked to collaborate, but after I opened the repository they disappeared. So the code is closed because nobody expressed a real interest in it.

SPS instead is an open format. I shared the schema with whoever wants and asked for help from whoever wants to add new SPS. Today there are a dozen SPS editors active in the project but people go and rarely come.
What I think is the problem is not my approach to openness, it's about the requirements I ask to the collaborators that are probably too pretentious.
Regarding the SPS editors I ask for their time (a lot), expertise, reliability, trust, and long time commitment.
Regarding the code dev I ask them to be top programmers, seriously dedicated to the project.
And I ask all of this for free, because the project is entirely freeware. And probably this is its worst weakness or, at least, the real reason I can't expand it as I would because of the lack of resources.

scentse wrote:
For instance, could the definition list database be decoupled, compiled, & stored on Github?

The definition list DB is a simple collection of xml files. Text files.
They are already shared with the world because if you open your [SyMenu]\ProgramFiles\SPSSuite\SyMenuSuite\_Cache folder you'll find a zipped file with the entire list of the SPS inside. There's even a button in SyMenu to open the SPS for every program included in the definitions.

The problem on the editing side it's not about the place where the SPS are published but the persons that collaborate to publish them.
The editors are strongly committed, really expert on it, but very few. And GitHub is not a collaborators multiplicator.]]> Wed, 07 Feb 2024 09:09:24 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from scentse Gianluca wrote:
We have a problem, a big one.

When SyMenu was only a simple stand alone program, knowing its users was not an important thing. Today, thanks to the SPS technology, SyMenu has become a hub for portable programs. And the conditions have changed, a lot....

It's a big problem because SPS is a fantastic technology and theoretically allows me and the others volunteers to index not hundreds but thousands of programs, but, again, it's a resource problem: my time, the editors' time....

The last problem is that I have no idea who is benefiting this fantastic system and, above all, how many SyMenu users really are....



Long post. A lot to unpack.
I discovered SyMenu a few years back when chocolatey & winget were being introduced.
Primarily, I wanted software that was synchronized between my machines through cloud storage.
This software was the superior solution then, and remains so now.

I imagine work on this project began long before I discovered it.
With that acknowledged, it's impossible to ignore the changes in the software development space.
Namely - OSS.

Giver the time/effort poured into developing SPS & SyMenu, there clearly exists a strong sense of ownership protection surrounding it.
Sometime back, I asked about open-sourcing the project, but it was shot down.

I wonder if there exists a way to offload some of the recurring maintenance components onto GitHub.

For instance, could the definition list database be decoupled, compiled, & stored on Github?
That way, maintenance of the database and those calls would be handled by Github; but with much of the code remaining protected.]]> Tue, 06 Feb 2024 20:57:01 GMT https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 Message from Gianluca
When SyMenu was only a simple stand alone program, knowing its users was not an important thing. Today, thanks to the SPS technology, SyMenu has become a hub for portable programs. And the conditions have changed, a lot.

Every single day there is a relevant pressure to this web site because thousands of SyMenu call home to know if a new program definition is available and eventually (almost every day) to download it.
There are also minor APIs related to the SyMenu version checking, updating and other actions.

The problem here is that every web site has limits on its resources like bandwidth, number of visits, server RAM...

The second problem is the burden to maintain the SyMenu suite is increasing week by week.
One year ago I decided not to increase my already large collection of SPS. Despite this decision, today I am at 700, and there are editors with more than 100 that means they are full too.
It's a big problem because SPS is a fantastic technology and theoretically allows me and the others volunteers to index not hundreds but thousands of programs, but, again, it's a resource problem: my time, the editors' time.

The last problem is that I have no idea who is benefiting this fantastic system and, above all, how many SyMenu users really are.
Since every SyMenu installation should be identified by a unique and anonymous GUID (see SyMenuConfig.xml, identity node) I carried out some investigations to infer the numbers and I discovered that, supposedly, more than 3.000 users (!!!) are hiding behind three or four GUID. It's a conservative estimate based on the different geographical area from where the calls with those particular GUID arrive... so at least 3.000 users or four ubiquitous persons.
This situation it's probably caused by some third party editors that distribute SyMenu and create a configuration with the same GUID for all their users. The SyMenu customization is allowed but I always explain that the configuration node identity needs to be left blank.

These are the problems.
Now let's go with the solutions.

The only way I have to count the users is preventing everyone from downloading the definitions without a login. If you already have a user register on the forum you can use that one, otherwise create a new user and wait because the next SyMenu version will force everyone to be recognizable.
And this is for the fantastic four: don't even think of creating a user linked to dozens of SyMenu because these kind of users will be automatically banned.

Naturally to download the definitions you need to use the last SyMenu version because I'll lock every direct download (yes I have this one too.......) or download with old SyMenu versions.

Sorry guys, but this situation is negatively impacting the entire project.

Naturally if you have something to say, this is the right place.]]> Tue, 06 Feb 2024 18:35:33 GMT